Curse

thor hammerbane · Jun 09, 2007, 12:29 AM // 00:29

Been browsing through the new warrior elites to see if there are any new usefull ones, and came across this. Was wondering what your views are on it? I'll put a brief skill description just from memory.

Decapitate {E}- 8 Adrenaline
Lose all adrenaline and all energy. If this hits, it does +53 damage(with 16 axe), causes a deep wound for 21 seconds, and results in a critical hit.

As you can see it could deal quite a hit, but what about after? I was thinking about unlocking this skill and playing around with a few builds. I'll get back to you guys on my finding, but i'm mainly interesting in your views on it.

ValidusMonachus · Jun 09, 2007, 01:12 AM // 01:12

The only use I can see for it in PvP is a spike finisher. The thing is, the majority of spikes already inflict deep wound before the end of the skill chain meaning that the extra deep wound is almost useless.

When playing against a team with Monks though, a quick re-application of the deep wound towards the end of a spike can definately help. The problem with this skill is the fact that it causes a loss of both adrenaline and energy. If it was just one or the other then it might be worth looking at as it could then be followed up by a Critical Chop or Executioners Strike. But then it would be an almost over powered version of Eviscerate.

I personally think that with an increase in adrenaline cost and only removing either energy or adrenaline it could recieve a lot of attention. As for now, it really doesn't stack up against other Warrior elites.

Patccmoi · Jun 09, 2007, 01:13 AM // 01:13

The only time i saw this used efficiently was by a guild running a Mesmer spike before Spiritual Pain nerf. The warrior did Decapitate and 4 SP hit about half a second later killing target straight. It was an incredibly clean spike.

But anything out of a spike build, this is pretty bad. The loss of energy and adrenal takes out from your ability to use utility that you'd have room to take since you just need 1 spike skill, and your ability to pressure.

You'd likely want Weapon of Fury somewhere in the build to gain energy and adrenal back quickly, and i'm really not sure what the rest of your bar would be like. Maybe a couple of signets might be interesting. Stuff like Leech Signet to interrupt and gain some energy back for instance. But either way, i think you're just better to stick with Evis-Exec in nearly any competitive build. The downside is just incredibly big.

TheOneMephisto · Jun 09, 2007, 01:39 AM // 01:39

I kind of like the concept of this skill, as it's a huge threat. When you have the ability to instakill anyone from half-health while still not having it be able to solo-spike due to the conditions, you suddenly become an extremely large threat on the battlefield. If you're running a pressure build, suddenly monks get a lot more nervous, as they know that they have to keep everyone at a much higher health or risk the threat of a solo or something like an orb + decapitate taking down anyone around 2/3rds health.

However, the conditions are pretty painful. Basically, if you want to be using decapitate, you aren't going to be doing much in between. Every single time you use it, you become useless until you can build up energy and adrenaline again (energy can be taken care of somewhat with a -5e weapon and -2e focus). So even though you become a larger battlefield presence, you're losing the ability to pressure, utility, and versatility, which is basically the reason people still bring warriors. And then it gets even less desirable when you look at something like evis->exec, which does similar or more damage while only adding on about a second to reaction time, and it retains the ability to pressure and the utility that makes warriors good.

thor hammerbane · Jun 09, 2007, 03:05 AM // 03:05

I unlocked it, basically because Ive gotten to the point where I have basically all the usefull skills, so now im unlocking ones that seem to be interesting to try in new builds. One possible solo build i was thinking to try was Exec->Disrupting->Decapitate, with a stance of course. The exec basically pressures the monk into using a skill, disrupting interupts that skill, and decapitate gives the monk that kick to the groin. I still haven't tried running it yet, and i'll report back once i do.

Dzan · Jun 09, 2007, 03:56 AM // 03:56

It's crap. The only real benefit is the automatic crit, which makes it, what, better than Evis 30%-40% of the time? Not worth the huge drawback.

kvndoom · Jun 09, 2007, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I had suggested once that it should be changed to losing the energy and adrenaline if it hits. With the current block-heavy metagame, it just has too much to lose for its gain. With 0 energy and 0 adrenaline, you have absolutely no way to cancel out of Frenzy if you get in trouble. Anet wanted to make a substitute for Eviscerate, and they failed. People are more apt to pack Dismember than this. For zero-energy PVE farming builds, sure, but in real life, meh.

zakaria · Jun 09, 2007, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

I had suggested once that it should be changed to losing the energy and adrenaline if it hits. With the current block-heavy metagame, it just has too much to lose for its gain.

Believe me even on your situation no one will even think of using it also, its drawbacks is huge, it's like a mesmer sitting in your face burning your energy and adrenaline..lol

RotteN · Jun 09, 2007, 09:24 AM // 09:24

it's total crap realy, even as a spike skill : (values @ 14 axe mastery, which is standard GvG setup)

first spike option :
eviscerate does +29 damage and 19 seconds deep wound
critical chop does +19 damage

second spike option :
decapitate does +47 damage and 19 seconds deep wound

basically, the first spike will take 1/4th second longer, which is neglegible in terms of "spike time", you're looking at a 1/4th second window of spiking anyway, pure 0 second spikes rarely happen

the first spike is a total of +48 damage
the second spike is a total of +47 damage

once again, both spikes are clearly matched to each other. +1 damage is not something you should worry about. (sure, it could kill a target, but your base damage is not fixed aswell, so you could end up doing less or more damage anyway).

So the only thing that matters is seeing what is best :
using 2 skillslots and keeping the utility of adrenalin and energy between spikes

or

get a guaranteed critical hit on a spike

honestly, i'd always go for utility...

thor hammerbane · Jun 10, 2007, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Well, I ran it a bit, and it didn't do too bad. The crit hit sure did hit squishes hard, but to charge up 8 adren and energy just to spike again is a bit excessive. Obviously evis is the better choice, but i'm waiting for Anet to buff this puppy up..oh well, untill then.

Div · Jun 10, 2007, 03:51 AM // 03:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotteN

it's total crap realy, even as a spike skill : (values @ 14 axe mastery, which is standard GvG setup)

first spike option :
eviscerate does +29 damage and 19 seconds deep wound
critical chop does +19 damage

second spike option :
decapitate does +47 damage and 19 seconds deep wound

basically, the first spike will take 1/4th second longer, which is neglegible in terms of "spike time", you're looking at a 1/4th second window of spiking anyway, pure 0 second spikes rarely happen

the first spike is a total of +48 damage
the second spike is a total of +47 damage

Not quite. You forget that strength's AP triggers twice on evis+crit chop, the fact that evis could have a critical too, and how there's two attacks, making the first combo do quite possibly a lot more damage. However, there is also a delay time after the 1/4 second attack, so the first combo would also take more than just 1/4 second longer to activate. None of this takes into account that the first combo leaves you with a lot of adrenaline and energy still, whereas the second destroys you...

Decapitate may work in cases where you switch energy set (from 15/-5 to 15^50) but even so it's much more limited in usage.

I'd like to see it cause bleeding as well as having an inherent 20% AP. Maybe up the damage ~5 points.

RotteN · Jun 10, 2007, 09:06 AM // 09:06

hmm, my bad, critical chop has a 1/2nd activation time, so the spike will indeed take a bit longer, but still fast enough realy.

my exact point was that evi+critical > decapitate anyway

TheOneMephisto · Jun 10, 2007, 12:43 PM // 12:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by holymasamune

Not quite. You forget that strength's AP triggers twice on evis+crit chop, the fact that evis could have a critical too, and how there's two attacks, making the first combo do quite possibly a lot more damage. However, there is also a delay time after the 1/4 second attack, so the first combo would also take more than just 1/4 second longer to activate. None of this takes into account that the first combo leaves you with a lot of adrenaline and energy still, whereas the second destroys you...

Decapitate may work in cases where you switch energy set (from 15/-5 to 15^50) but even so it's much more limited in usage.

I'd like to see it cause bleeding as well as having an inherent 20% AP. Maybe up the damage ~5 points.

There's no delay after 1/2sec activation attacks. Trust me, just load up your bar with prot strike, magehunter, crit chop, and go dummy hitting.

So basically there's a 1/2 sec in between damage hits. That's so fast it's basically instantaneous, as it's impossible for a monk to sneak a skill through there if the monk didn't see it coming (1/4sec RoF + lag makes reaction time impossible).

6am3 Fana71c · Jun 10, 2007, 02:04 PM // 14:04

wtf r u guys talking bout, Decapitate is gr8, just use like this:
Zealous Renewal + IAS stance + Decapitate + Signet of Pious Light
And there you go, you get back your 15 energy or so.

kvndoom · Jun 10, 2007, 02:37 PM // 14:37

So you're forcing a specific secondary and bringing 2 extra skills just to make your Elite work? That's very, very versatile... :-\

The Muffen Man · Jun 11, 2007, 07:15 PM // 19:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by 6am3 Fana71c

wtf r u guys talking bout, Decapitate is gr8, just use like this:
Zealous Renewal + IAS stance + Decapitate + Signet of Pious Light
And there you go, you get back your 15 energy or so.

The problem with this is you'll be blinded, crippled, hexed so by the time ZR ends you would be luck to get 5 energy back and dont forget it costs 10 just to activate it.

wuzzman · Jun 11, 2007, 08:01 PM // 20:01

Its not worth the huge draw back. Losing Adreline, thats fine even for an elite, but losing ALL energy on a warrior...takes away from any ulitility that skill may have. Your basicly making skills like bullstrike, IAS, and your run skill alot harder to pull off once your done burning through all your energy with +2 pips of regen...

thedeadwalk! · Jun 11, 2007, 08:24 PM // 20:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by kvndoom

So you're forcing a specific secondary and bringing 2 extra skills just to make your Elite work? That's very, very versatile... :-\

[skill]Ether Signet[/skill]

That could help. Though the 60 second recharge is quite the drawback.

Greedy Gus · Jun 12, 2007, 04:56 AM // 04:56

The only decapitate bar I liked was:

Warrior/Mesmer

Strength: 13 (12+1)
Axe Mastery: 16 (12+4)
Domination Magic: 3

[skill]Bull's Strike[/skill] [skill]Executioner's Strike[/skill] [skill]Decapitate[/skill] [skill]Protector's Strike[/skill] [skill]Rush[/skill] [skill]Enraging Charge[/skill] [skill]Signet of Disruption[/skill] [skill]Resurrection Signet[/skill]

charge adren, then unleash with bulls->exe->decap->sig disruption

You can pretty easily time the sig disruption to hit their first spell as they get up, but I can't remember if the idea worked (signet triggering deep wound).

Pressure with zealous axe + prot strike on kiting targets with full-time rush.

Extra fun with a buff smiter pumping you with JI/SoH.